china cymbals

[Tomm]

i got to get a wuhan... but i really like zildjian orential china trash cymbals. personaly i like want a china on my kit just haven't got one yet... wat i dn't understang is having to chinas on your kit my friend has a sabian 16 AAX china and an 18 AA china.  that's just kinda pointless

I have just recently (2 YEARS AGO) added a China to my collection.  I like it and I can see where I could make use of another in my work.  Don't sell your friend short, all it takes is a little work to make just about anything sound good.  It depends on the production your working on.

In Chicago, I am amazed how good our street drummers can make 5 gallon buckets and garbage can lids sound.  It's all in the way the junk is played.

[KenSanders]

View my earlier post in this thread about China cymbals too.

There are many very different China sounds available today.  You may really like some of them.  You may really hate some of them.   It's your personal choice as to what you can and can't use with your drumming work and your style of playing.

For example:   I have one that is a 22" Paiste Traditional Medium Light Swish, and I often use in jazz work.  It has a low pitch and much more shimmer and sustain that the heavier weight models.  The sound is more of a "Bauchhhhhhhhsssssss" sound    than the "KANG" attack sound from heavier and higher pitched models. 

Just as the sound of an 18" Paper Thin Crash cymbal is very different from that of an 18" Heavy Metal Crash cymbal, you can choose from a large array of China models in lots of weights, diameters, and even distinct variances is the shapes and bells.

My thoughts are that when used judiciously "in just the right place" China cymbals make a unique statement like no other cymbal can.  Likewise, when used "out of context" smacking a China cymbal can be the most obnixious effect you could possibly do!
 

[Tomm]

Very well put Ken.  I couldn't agree more.

[Johnathan]

I like mine as well, have a question.  DO you place your China ridge side up or ridge side down?  I see many with the ridge down, I read it is not so much for sound but it keeps from chipping your sticks.  I have played mine both ways and found there is a sound differance.  I happen to like the sound ridge side down and that also keeps my sticks from chipping.

[KenSanders]

For me it depends upon the individual cymbal.  Paiste makes some models they call a Novo China.  Those models permit you to place the cymbal unto your stand with the bell dome "RIGHTSIDE UP" because the edge is flanged "DOWNWARD" not "upward".

My Paiste Traditionals Model Swish has an edge that is basically FLAT (much like a Zildjian Pang or a Sabian Flat Chinese) so there is no need to "invert it".  I play it mounted "rightside up".

I have a 19" New Signature Thin China Prototype that is shaped in the typical China design with the edge turned upward.  It also has a tall squared of kind of bell. I DO mount that cymbal "upside down" to be able to play it in various places and ALSO keep from chipping so many chucks out of my stick when the strokes strike the turned up edge.

Well, that's my rationale.   For me, the way I mount the individual China cymbal is for playing ease, not looks.    

[Johnathan]

Thanks Ken!  That makes sense to me.  You have some great gear by the way

[rdrummer322]

I like the sound of Chinas as crashes in what I do, often going to them instead of a regular crash. I have 2 12 inch Wuhans (the cheapies) and they sound noticeably different from each other, I also use a 14" and 16" Wuhan. The 16" gets the most play just because I like the sound the best. I also have a 14" custom A bent to crap that sounds better than any China I've ever tried that gets lots of use. Used in conjunction, these Wuhans make for some interesting progressively pitched swells, a lot dirtier sounding than similar swells with my "A"Zildjian 14,15,16,18 crashes.

[KenSanders]

I have several China type cymbals in my stash.  Let's see there a 20" 2002 Paiste Novo China; a 22" Paiste Signature Thin China; a 19" Prototype (New Signature alloy) China; a 20" Paiste Traditionals Medium Light Swish; and a 22" Paiste Traditionals Medium Light Swish.

They all have unique voices.  The two Traditionals swishes tend to "blend" beautifully with many Jazz and Big Band styles.  I use them a lot.

The 22" Signature Thin certainly gets attention when you hit it, but it is not going to tear your head off.  It's a great "go to" China for me when performing Fusion and other more adventurous genres. It usually goes into the bag for large venue work.

The Novo China and the Prototype have that brash "in your face" POW and I have use them judiciously. They definitely have the bark and bite for agressive effects.

In my experience, choosing cymbals (including China types) that fit the genre is as important a reality as choosing the right snare sound. That's also part of the fun.....for me at least. 

[Tomm]

Ken, if I had your percussion equipment, I'd have to sell my fishing gear for the storage.

That being said...I'm going to have to ask you this so I don't have to buy so many and feel them out too.  What is your favorite brand and size, gauge included, of China cymbal?

[KenSanders]

Hey Tomm

I do have a collection of instruments that reflect the kind of work I get hired to do. As that kind of work has evolved, so has the gear that gets to reside in my drum locker. So the things that I do have are the things I actually use.

My two favorite China cymbals are both Paistes and they are both 22" in diameter. For jazz and big band I typically use theTraditional Medium Light Swish with 6 rivets mounted right side up. That's my absolute favorite

For other genres my first choice is a Signature Thin China with 6 rivets. It is mounted upside down. I consider it a great "compromise" China cymbal because it has the characteristic China attack but there is immediately a warm wash of low overtones that "tame" it down just enough to prevent it from being obnoxious. It sounds beautiful and exotic when I play a swelling roll on it with mallets. One word for this cymbal.....multi-functional!

[Tomm]

Thanks Ken, that was just what I was hoping for, a concept with chinas that I hadn't considered yet...rivets.  I'll be off to G.C. now to investigate.

[KenSanders]

Tomm

Many of the heavier weight China cymbals make a fast decaying "kang" or "pang' sound when struck.  I rarely have a need for that sound.

My two Pasite Traditionals Medium Light Swishes make a medium duration decay "Baaaaaaushssss" sound (the sssss is the buzzing of the 6 rivets).

My Paiste Signature Thin China make a "POWaauchhsssssss" sound.  It a stronger initial attack sound than the Traditionals and the pitch is slightly higher.

I hope these attempts to describe the sounds in words help.  As you know, only YOUR ears can select the perfect China(s) for your needs.  Have a blast at the candy store! 

[Tomm]

Good attepts Ken...I am checking into this and I'll let you know how it turns out.  Then I have to figure out where it will be mounted.  Decisions...decisions...decisions.

[IL_DUCE]

You don't like your China because it's a entry level B8 pie. There's 2 china's that stand above the rest. Wuhan is the classic china I absolutely love mine. I also like Silken china's They're a little heavier than Wuhan's overall but they still have that classic china sound. Silkens also have a western style bell, if that matters to you.

[ipatchi002]

I haven't heard of Wuhan...might keep a look out for them.
I just bought a Paiste china off a mate for £35 ($69). Not too bad, but if your saying you can get 3 Wuhans for a lil bit more than that, i'm amazed!

There is another brand called Agazarian. There not that known though. i only ever seen them at guitar center. There preaty cheap and there made by the same distributor as Wuhan. In fact there starting to take wuhans place. my high hat, 16 in crash, 10 inch splash and 16 inch china are all Agazarian. They sound great. Not the most durable cymbals though.

[Magma1261]

I like the Agazarian 16 and 18" chinas. even though its an off brand, they still get a great thrashy authentic sound. they are quite durable and they last me roughly 16 months. i mean, youre not supposed to hit them lightly!

[Tomm]

I have Agazarian hi hat cyms for my secondary Hi hat system on my right.  Not my favorite set cause I have a vintage set of Zildjians on my left, but I still like them.  I will be testing their chinas now...thanks.

[yamaharec]

I've got  Sabian 19”AAX  X-treme China ,14” HHX Mini Chinese they served me well so Far!!I was dicking around the idea of getting another China ?I already got 11 cymbals in my set-up!!What's one more??

[Tomm]

Experiments are the creators of innovation.  I paired a side by side china and a ping crash, so when I strike the china it contacts the ping crash and the sound sustains in a completely different finish.  Not a constant go to...but I'm glad I found it.

[KenSanders]

I'd like to see a picture of the way you have that rigged up Tomm.