Recording Kick question

[davidvignola]

Hi group,

I am a new engineering recording drums in my studio and I have been striving for a specific kick drum sound and I can't seem to achieve it. I am looking for a kick drum to sit in my mix like the way the kick sits on the AC/DC CD stiff upper lip & Black Ice. I don't know if any of you guy's are familiar with these two CD's but the kick tone is what I am after. I have messed with an EQ forever trying to achieve this sound and can't get it. Here is my set-up and recoridng tenique.

I am using a Shure beta 52 on just outside the port hole of the kick and an Audix D6 inside the kick abotu 3" from the beater. I made sure I had no phase issues and they both sound nice and deep and thick sounds but they miss the "slap" and don't cut through very much in the mix. From there I go into a Universal Audio LA610 pre then into Cubase SX3.

For my EQ, I am using a VST plug and boosted the 2k range and cut the 200hz a bit to take out the "boom". I also cut a little at 50hz so the kick and bass guitar don't work against each other

If anyone has or has listened to the two AC/DC Cd's I mentioned you will know what I am going after. Maybe I need to do something dofferent. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you

[patafla]

I just checked Stiff Upper Lip  on You tube, nice bass drum sound, I´d say go with a good compressor.

Also you might want to try the "Waves" SSL EQ but dont overdo it. This one is first and foremost a compressor thing.

have fun!

ah one more thing I noticed you said "Audix D6 inside the kick abotu 3" from the beater" I´d say try 10 - 12 inches.

[Reno]

I know this is an old thread, but here are some additional tips and tricks..
kill 400hz in the mix on ALL but kick (and bass guitar). This will be huge in bringing out the impact of the impact so to speak.
for more 'slap', use a smaller diaphram mic inside the kick (but not so small that the overpressure kills it!!)
Ken has written some very informative blogs on mic'ing, including the use of sub kick mics - check 'em out.

Did you know you can make your own sub kick mic using that old speaker that is sitting in the corner collecting dust? Yup - a mic wired backwards acts like a speaker (produces sound) and a speaker wired backwards will capture it (like a mic). The best commercial sub kick mics out there are actually made using a 6" Yamaha speaker driver. But here is the trick, and what to look for if you want to make your own: SIZE MATTERS! 6" has the best response given the typical speaker geometry, as you increase the diameter the response drops below the hearing range of the average human. This is due in part to the diameter of the diaphragm, and in part to the angle of the speaker cone itself. Typically speaking, he bigger the speaker diameter the greater the differential in distance between the rim and the dust cap in the center. The speaker you select for this purpose should be as flat as possible - a perfectly flat Sony APM driver is a stellar choice, while an ultra-deep sub-woofer is probably the worst. The deeper the cone is, the greater the time delay between sound waves hitting the edge and the center. The result of a deep cone is a muddy sound that will do nothing to improve your mix (unless of course it is a desired and intentional specialty effect).
Experiment using clip-leads to wire the speaker to the mic cable, if you have phasing issues try reversing polarity (hardware level phase correction).
Oh yeah - and take the speaker driver out of the cabinet. If it is  mounted in an air-tight box, it will have NO bottom end at all. A vented box isn't really any better as it will push on the back of the cone (with phased timing) and render it muddy/useless. the removed driver, on the other hand will (when hanging from a stand or otherwise supported) create a sound wave vacuum behind the driver which accentuates it's movement (and thereby it's response).

Enjoy.

[KenSanders]

A new response to this old thread.

 The January 2009 edition of "SOUND ON SOUND" magazine has an extensive article on the recording and mixing of ACDC's Black Ice.  Mike Fraser (who recorded and mixed the album ) gives lots of information about mics used, mic placement, drum booths, desks used, EQ and Compression. 

That's the best source for hearing how HE did it.  Reno and Patafla have also offered some very good advice.

Much also depends on your gear, and the sound your studio gets,  Sometimes it is easier to use a sample if time and budget are factors,