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Tomm
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« on: February 10, 2011, 06:21:59 PM »

I am watching a 2010 REO recorded Midwest Concert and, sorry to say I don't know who the drummer is...but...the kit in this concert is using four bass drums, 2x2 in line, or paired up if you prefer.  Anyone know anything or reasons for this.  I must say it is a first for me...I don't have a clue as to why or what for.
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KenSanders
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KenSanders

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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2011, 10:27:45 PM »

Tomm, assuming this is the kit I saw Brian Hitt play, then I have some thoughts to offer.


Current REO drummer, Brian Hitt endorses Ludwig drums. Apparently they built this kit around their Epic Modular Series concept for this particular REO tour.

Below I have shown the Ludwig link that shows their Epic Modular series.  Notice that the bass drums are designed to be “connectable”.

As for why…….I suppose you could begin by agreeing that it has a unique look that then evaluate the advantage that it might provide a drummer as far a sound, tone, etc.

http://www.ludwig-drums.com/drumkits/epicmodular.php


DW Drums began producing their bass drum “woofer” several years ago, and often you see it used on some concert stages these days too.  It is a similar concept to connecting those two Ludwig Epic Modular bass drums together.   It is designed to add low end resonance with a separate a thinner drum placed in front of the regular bass drum.  The two sounds are then mixed together to produce the desired blend of attack, tone, resonance, etc.

http://www.dwdrums.com/drums/collectors/specialty.asp

Yamaha takes a different approach to accomplish similar results with a device they call the Subkick. I have used the Subkick in large venues.  They are easier to set up and mix than another bass drum with all sorts of overtones to work through by trial and error. And remember that every large venue is different.

However, the Subkick may not actually look as visually striking (to some foks) as a connected bass drum.  Huh

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/drums/accessories/lowfreq/

Unless you are performing for an audience of at least 5,000, these devices aren't something you would practically utilize because of the very expensive sound reinforcement gear required.

Devices designed to enhance those really really low frequencies, are only effective if the sound reinforcement equipment is capable of processing those frequencies and then sending those frequencies through super low frequency speakers. It takes a lot more watts to push lows through the sound gear too.
 
And....the super low frequencies, i.e. 20 to 15 Htz, can't actually be heard by the human ear. However, you can "feel" feel them in your chest.

So, with enough watts they could probably also shake the fillings out of your teeth and make to bladder empty.  Perhaps crack the foundation of some buildings too.
  Grin







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Ken Sanders
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Tomm
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2011, 10:50:03 AM »

Ken, I knew I would get a full answer to my question from you, and then some. :-)  Your description of the results to this type of technology is classic.  As I let this new knowledge sink in, I will try to understand WHY.  My first impression is to keep competing with the electronic world of drumming at their level of competition.  I would like to see  opinions of others on the whys also. 
I don't think I would want to stop any hearts with a kick ass solo, and messin' with those low hz ranges could do that...I'm thinkin'  Shocked
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KenSanders
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2011, 04:47:11 PM »

For concerts (as well as recordings) people have been developing and employing ways to make the drums sound "bigger than life" for a long time now.  Whether they use samples, or triggered sounds, or various types of outboard gear....whatever.....that is a reality of big show business today.  Unless you are touring with a big name act, you'd have to mortgage your house to get all the gear needed to re-create that kind of fire power......plus the tractor trailer to transport it and a crew.  Cheesy

If we put sound reinforcement/enhancement gear into a reasonable perspective, we immediately realize that there are actually many more drummers performing in smaller venues on any given day.  My experience is that the venue and genre actually determine what gear you need to use.  Wink

Although I work in lots of very different performance situations, I thoroughly enjoy the sound of my drums in a small to medium sized venue. What is more beautiful to purist-minded drummers that a great acoustic drum sound?  Cool
 
Playing your acoustic drum set to an audience of 500 in a large ballroom might include the use of microphones to reinforce your sound, but it probably would not include the additional sound enhancement gear that a big name touring act would use like woofers or Subkick or triggers. If the smaller venues are your typical performance environment then I'd suggest you focus on getting your best sound within that realistic expectation.  But then that's only my way of looking at it.  Wink

If aren't one who insists on using acoustic drums, then the use of a high-end electronic drum kit can produce some "bigger than life" sounds similar to the concert stage sounds. That works well in some musical styles, but certainly not all. I have seen that option used with impressive results in some smaller venues.
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Ken Sanders
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Tomm
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2011, 10:36:03 PM »

I really am hung up on the accoustics of it all, with a good set of monitors to be sure to hear everyone else while I play as loud and hard as I like...that's about my limit on pumping up the sound.
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